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Water Filters (bad water quality in P@D)
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2100
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS. Before someone blasts me for being naive and succumbing to cheating claims, Instapure is really certified by NSF on the NSF website itself.

These "simple" filters do not claim to be as beneficial as Diamond Energy Water anyway. Laughing (or what bamboo magnetic

(Jack Neo inside...at about 2:00 mark Laughing )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZFInTHhMKs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfIjjIVXQg8
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leo_wen_sg
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrome on plastic looks nice but will tend to scratch and fade easily especially on wet areas where constant wiping are needed so be sure to take extra care when going for chrome plastic. Unlike other colors where the color dye is injected when moulding the plastic, chrome is just a coating on top of the plastic itself, once gone all that is left is the ugly yellowish surface.

Also make sure to go for a more common brand when choosing a water purifier where the filtration canister are readily available on the market. Try not to go for those "ulu" brand where after you expended one cartridge, you will have trouble finding a replacement cos the distributor stop bringing in that particular brand.
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leo_wen_sg
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Btw osim having clearance sale at it's HQ. Selling uPure 100 at about $49, pretty good deal.

From Friday, 28th May 2010 - Sunday, 30th May 2010

Enjoy up to 70% off display sets at OSIM Headquarters 65, Ubi Ave 1 from 10am to 5pm.
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2100
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True, must take extra care. As long as don't use scouring pad can liao. Sponge is good, with a dab of detergent. Knocking a plate on it won't scratch, but a knife will surely scratch - so will a plastic one I guess in such circumstances.

Actually the mixer which CES gave us in our bathrooms scratches real easily. But the chrome on plastic that I purchased from Homefix (Tuscani brand) does not scratch as easily. In fact the 2 shower heads and 2 shower bars which I purchased has literally no scratches at all, not even hairline.

But the Instapure one I don't know coz just a few days old. But the chrome coating seems like the Tuscani type, good stuff. Need to see how in the future.... Very Happy

I checked other forums, Instapure, Hyflux F38 all few years old here already mp issue. Cleansui has really solid backing but expensive filters.
All sold in major stores like Best Denki, HomeFix, Carrefour, Tangs - not an issue and Instapure/Mitsubishi Cleansui are international brands, so I guess no lack of future distributors.

Or just buy extra filters lah....


Last edited by 2100 on Fri May 28, 2010 12:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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2100
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

leo_wen_sg wrote:
Btw osim having clearance sale at it's HQ. Selling uPure 100 at about $49, pretty good deal.


WAH, so cheap. Good. But remember if get it also need to grab 4 extra filters. So can "dong" through like 2 years past the current reno stage at P@D. I think filters like $39, so get 4 also not much $$ overall. As its "clearance", so not sure if next time can get replacement filters liao, EOL.
But multiple users in other forums said the water level cannot switch around during operation, quite a few broke.
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SafetyCar
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 4:17 am    Post subject: Re: Water Filters (bad water quality in P@D) Reply with quote

2100 wrote:
PS. Those aquarium enthusiasts, got any pH meter or Tetra/JBL test kits to measure hardness, pH etc? I suspect its damn hard. Safetycar, Jimmy bro? I hope you have reverse osmosis machine.


Miss out your Paragraph earlier ...
I am getting the Reverse Osmosis machine soon. For that matter, I am no expert.

But I seriously wanna consider Water Filters for home use. Just to play Safe.
Too much Info, my mind is lazy ....

2100, what is your final choice ? Hyflux or Instapure ?
Most probably I am going to shop for it over this long weekend..
Do let me know ya.
Cheers!

Guan
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: Water Filters (bad water quality in P@D) Reply with quote

SafetyCar wrote:

Miss out your Paragraph earlier ...
I am getting the Reverse Osmosis machine soon. For that matter, I am no expert.

2100, what is your final choice ? Hyflux or Instapure ?
Most probably I am going to shop for it over this long weekend..
Do let me know ya.
Cheers!

Guan


RO kit for your aquarium? You are keeping marine, reefs, arowana?
I not that high-dollar, last time only small time marine and 3-footers Frontosas, african cichlids (I like dovii, jaguar), usual freshwater. So dump anti-chloramine can liao. Very Happy

Hyflux for cost $$ value or you don't want chrome. $99 and filters are $46. There used to be promo with 1 free filter. They claim 1000L.

But for filters with activated carbon, its best to change once every 3 months, coz inside could be breeding ground for bacteria, especially so if you have not used it for like 2-3 days (static water inside filter). The membrane filter supposed to be able to filter 99.9% bacteria (its some viruses which require nanofiltration), but just to be sure coz if breeding ground for bacteria inside also will clog up the filter eventually.

Instapure F8 Ultra has a non-chrome version too. $138, replacement filters $39. Do note every 3 months its recommended to replace though you might wanna push it 6 months if water through filter is not often static - eg use it to fill up individual cups several times a day instead of 2-days fill up 1 x 2L pitcher.

Instapure chrome if you are not afraid of scratching it. But after 1 week of usage no need to wipe also lah coz no stain so low maintenance. Its only the basin and water tap lever which has water stains. But no reason it would be scratched as long as you use microfibre instead of those scouring pad/sponge. (sponge is quite hard actually if you wipe really hard). Instapure chrome is those HomeFix Tuscani type of chrome-plastic which wipes easily with microfibre.
Actually now upon closer inspection my kitchen metal tap is slightly and finely scratched, coz my in law always wipes with normal cloth. Must tell her not to touch the Instapure. Laughing

Let me support my case. Below pix is nearly 3 months of usage with 2 pax, showering 2X daily. Plastic chrome for shower head, shower head bar, metal chrome for CES mixer. As you can see metal chrome for our CES taps, mixer has an issue of water marks. Soaped 2X and later microfibre dry also like that. Plastic chrome is very easy to maintain, use hand to wipe with water, wipe dry with microfibre - no soap required.

High-res close-up photo.
http://www.pbase.com/weddings_events/image/124983502/original.jpg


For those really high-usage type, like one person who PMed me they got 7 pax, or for those wash vegetable also want to use filtered water, get the Cleansui Z9. Cost per L is like 8X lower.

http://www.btbtrading.com/cleansui/product/countertop%20Z9.htm

Head over to Best Denki Ngee Ann City. Cleansui, Instapure, Hyflux, Novita all got.

Its good that you are shopping for one. My mum using the high-capacity Alkaline models (I think KRK, $1300), coz she is suffereing from chronic Gastric Reflux (acid regurgitate up). That controlled her illness quite effectively. I saw the filter filtering out supposedly clean tap water, scary. I don't have any pix, but also don't wanna post else cause mass hysteria. Laughing All black and brownish one, something like the insides of your vacuum cleaner bag.
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SafetyCar
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great ... Will find time to pop by Best Denki today ...
Thanks ya . Wink
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2100
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Confirm the water at P@D got slight issue.

I use Instapure filtration for the water in my kettle, hot airpot and water pitcher. I did not boil the water in my kettle and water pitcher, hot airpot is auto boiled.

My baby newphew 4 months old visited us yesterday and drank the water from the pitcher as well as using it to make his milk. This morning lao sai liao. He has a very very sensitive stomach, only drinks boiled water at his house, his pacifier/bottle are boiled sterilised as well as 24/7 UV-C sterilised. All his stuff always double wiped with dilluted Dettol and water twice daily etc.... Even they go out they will have a bottle of hand steriliser handy so that they touch him don't pass much germs via contact.

Forgot to tell them that I don't boil my water.... Confused Guess something still got past the filter (even though the system is NSF certified).
But I think normal people with strong stomachs no issue lah.
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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bro, the filter size for the normal type will not be able to filter most bacteria and fungus. It filters only contaminants.
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SafetyCar
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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAKE NOTE:-

Kindly check if you purchase InstaPure.
Got mine last week from Great World City Home Fix.
Got home to fix it up and realised that it didn't come with the Adaptor.
Went back to Home Fix and they do a One to One exchange.
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psyoyo
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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am still thinking about getting the filters for all the taps in the house. The other day just before our "informal gathering", I'm still seeing brown water coming out from the tap in the common toilet! It's brown before turning back to normal water. This time very sure it's brown, cos my lights weren't on and the water was really brown!

So hubby and myself now let the water run abit before rinsing our mouths or brushing our teeth.... Drinking water still being boiled before use, but we'll also let the water run abit before letting the water go into the kettle. Armadillo has a nice novita system in his house too. Wink
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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xianwei wrote:
Bro, the filter size for the normal type will not be able to filter most bacteria and fungus. It filters only contaminants.


Yep, the Instapure F2 does not filter bacteria, cysts, protozoa, whatever stuff. I think the Philips model also does not, basically just an activated carbon filter with very fine pores. These micro organisms things do thrive in stagnant water, deoxygenated water etc. (coz I played with aquarium before - get a cut and play with the filter, CMI one confirm. Laughing ).

I got the F8 Ultra, does filter bacteria. The bigger viruses also kena filtered.

Big difference is the price. The Ultrafiltration filters not not cheap. The others like F2 and Philips only go for what...S$25 for a 2-pack and filters a crazy 2000L. Some of those water pitchers only filter down to 1 micron and some are even cheaper than 1 pack of the ultrafiltration replacement filters. The Cleansui is a whopping $85 and does only 900L, the F8 is just 378L, $39. The Hyflux is $46 and has a pore size of 0.015 microns.

(check under benefits)
http://www.hyfluxconsumer.com/product/view/2

Instapure F8
http://www.duro.com.sg/product_detail.asp?BID=3&PID=56


But for treatment of unknown quality sources of water, they'd recommend boiling it or with UV sterilisation. Coz a very very small amount can still slip through the pores. And if the bacteria is deadly, that's it. But that's more for "in the field rural areas" - not an issue for our piped water.

http://www.safewater.org/PDFS/resourcesknowthefacts/Ultrafiltration_Nano_ReverseOsm.pdf

http://www.multi-pure.com.sg/Cysts.html

In fact I am not sure if any of you experienced pinkish bacteria thriving on the white plastic CES drainage trap. You may see it in the drainage hole of your original CES provided basin if you still have it. I see that on my walls during the seepage problem. It might be algae, or it might be pink cyanobacteria.



Safetycar - have to make sure the box looks originally heat shrink packed. All the Hyflux stuff, Instapure stuff I see are heat shrinked packed. If it looks re-packed by DIY, then have to open up and see.
Anyway, HomeFix confirm can change no questions asked assurance policy 7 days - not an issue.
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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

psyoyo wrote:
Am still thinking about getting the filters for all the taps in the house.


No need lah.... just a cheap Hyflux at $99 will do, add in replacement filter below $150 kao dim for 1 year. Very Happy You don't drink no issue what - put one in the kitchen is enough.

Hyflux, dunno will be around or not in a couple of years....neither buy that stock nor monitor its stock price.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2100 wrote:

Safetycar - have to make sure the box looks originally heat shrink packed. All the Hyflux stuff, Instapure stuff I see are heat shrinked packed. If it looks re-packed by DIY, then have to open up and see.
Anyway, HomeFix confirm can change no questions asked assurance policy 7 days - not an issue.


It's pretty easy to see that it's originally in packing. They missed it out.
I am also a person who don't give a hoot if there is 7 days assurance policy. I am famous for being a bull. I got my way thru despite Cracking the shell of the Instapure.
Fix it up liao. Wink
Laughing Laughing Laughing
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can return it EVEN if you have opened it up and used it for a while and found it unsuitable. Laughing Same goes for HMV etc.

I also tore open the doorbell they selling, the packaging cannot salvage coz its those need to destroy before you can open type. Found the ding dong to be a bit soft not sure if its faulty or what. They tested another unit, also like that. So returned for a wireless electronic type (better coz can hide it in the light cove).
Also returned 2 Osram micro twist, coz I wanted the mini twist.

That's why its also good to shop there for these "critical stuff" which you would not know it fits or not. Dun fit just exchange for something else. I don't think Best Denki is as nice esp if the shell is cracked - over there the salespersons some are pretty hardcore type.

Of coz for those 3M tapes, basin strainer, door stopper, door latch all can get from Tg Pagar Plaza h/w shop I get from there lah....

So its good huh. I'm done shopping for all my filters, purchased another 4 more replacement filters. So can last ~ 2 years liao, the critical period which I think I will be using water filters.
Also got 4 x HEPA-13 filters for my Sharp air-cleaner, that one damn difficult to purchase so stock up first. I cleared up all of Taka Best Denki's stock. Philips vacuum cleaner filters v easy to get as its S-bag which is a universal standard together with other brands, that one relax. Laughing But I'm trying to hunt down the special green coloured Philips HEPA-10 filter, I purchased 1 pack only (4 pcs filter, can last 3 months each) and its extremely difficult to purchase that version.

Aquarium stuff much easier to get hor......more personalised esp for the high-end stuff.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2100 wrote:
Laughing But I'm trying to hunt down the special green coloured Philips HEPA-10 filter, I purchased 1 pack only (4 pcs filter, can last 3 months each) and its extremely difficult to purchase that version.


You can get it @ their parts store in the service center at ToaPayon lor 1
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

saggydog wrote:


You can get it @ their parts store in the service center at ToaPayon lor 1


Bro, confirm you saw it there?

http://www.consumer.philips.com/c/household-accessories/s-bag-hepa-anti-allergy-fc8022_04/prd/sg/

Reason I chose Philips is actually due to this + S-bag standard, actually I don't really like Philips.
My Philips LCD in MBR also, but ID said "free" gift cannot change to Panasonic. Evil or Very Mad
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2100 wrote:
I don't think Best Denki is as nice esp if the shell is cracked - over there the salespersons some are pretty hardcore type.

.


Not to worry. I have bought some stuff from Best Denki too. Maybe for you, they are HardCore. I don't have this Issue. Wink

As for Aquarium, I am pretty lucky. I didn't bother much. They settled everything and whatever little issues that I faced.

Now there is another problem.... My MBR Kicker Leaked out Water. Pretty Much... HAHAHHAHAHHAA .... Laughing Laughing Laughing Scratch head liao...
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2100 wrote:
saggydog wrote:


You can get it @ their parts store in the service center at ToaPayon lor 1


Bro, confirm you saw it there?

http://www.consumer.philips.com/c/household-accessories/s-bag-hepa-anti-allergy-fc8022_04/prd/sg/

Reason I chose Philips is actually due to this + S-bag standard, actually I don't really like Philips.
My Philips LCD in MBR also, but ID said "free" gift cannot change to Panasonic. Evil or Very Mad


I used to work there 2 years back I think you better give them a call before going down.
I known there is a parts store beside the services center selling spare parts

you can call the shown room too

The Philips Experience
620A Toa Payoh Lorong 1
TP4 Building, Philips Showroom
Singapore 319762
Tel no. : 6882 3000

Service centre
Ph : 6882 3999 ; Fax : 6250 8037
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2100
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks saggydog, I managed to get the last 3 packs of Philips HEPA-10 S-bag at Albert OG. So all in all with the current pack which I already have can totally last me about 5 years. Razz

Safetycar, what is Masterbedroom Kicker?

I'd very much try to start the aquarium hobby again, do a single small but solid high-quality cichlid 3-foot tank. (not more of the sian sian Frontosa Laughing ). Maybe Malawi cichlids. Just don't know where to put. Scratchy, scratchy If ONLY they cut out just 0.5m of the aircon-ledge and shift to Yard then confirm SWEE LAH! Laughing Now its like they catered for a system 3 + system 3, 6 FCU. Scratchy, scratchy

Now can put, but a bit squeezy coz I have additional hanger device beside the washing machine. No direct sun for about 6-9 months too, so not too much worries about algae bloom or what. Hmm...lemme think.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2100 wrote:
Thanks saggydog, I managed to get the last 3 packs of Philips HEPA-10 S-bag at Albert OG. So all in all with the current pack which I already have can totally last me about 5 years. Razz

Safetycar, what is Masterbedroom Kicker?

I'd very much try to start the aquarium hobby again, do a single small but solid high-quality cichlid 3-foot tank. (not more of the sian sian Frontosa Laughing ). Maybe Malawi cichlids. Just don't know where to put. Scratchy, scratchy If ONLY they cut out just 0.5m of the aircon-ledge and shift to Yard then confirm SWEE LAH! Laughing Now its like they catered for a system 3 + system 3, 6 FCU. Scratchy, scratchy

Now can put, but a bit squeezy coz I have additional hanger device beside the washing machine. No direct sun for about 6-9 months too, so not too much worries about algae bloom or what. Hmm...lemme think.


Hi Hi, you can call me Guan... Buddies call me by that cos I don't have an English name from young. Smile

Okie.... you know thru out our house at the base of the Wall.. there is this wood colour strip. It's the Kicker Board or Kicker..

As for the Aquarium..... DIY a Small one is better. Else cost a Bomb.
If you have implanted a lot of carpentry or fanciful designed partitions that takes up a lot of space, then you will face a problem putting in the Aquarium.
Anyway, if you don't have the initial intention to do it.. then leave it.
I am sure your house is nice enough liao.... don't make it too squeezy la.

My house design is Simple, Max height Ceiling, Space and Storage.
I do not have anything special features that 'Eat' up too much Space... So I think it still looks fine.
Dunno about yours .... Suspect yours have a lot of Reno Stuff liao.
A 3 Footer tank is not Small leh....it's half of my height liao. Razz
But if you are like me... Backside Too itchy liao, then quick quick go DO IT !!!! Laughing Laughing Laughing

Next time then visit your house.
Mine will confirm delay.
Yesterday Power trip... Buay Tahan...Luckily my Contractor Pop by, else my Fishes HK liao!!!
CES came up to resolve their issue.
Sigh... CES CES ... Aiyo... Shocked
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi.. i got the hyflux one ($89.90) in the end cos it is cheaper than osim ($128) selling in Homefix. Also hyflux filters out microns whereas instapure does not.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fran0610 wrote:
Hi.. i got the hyflux one ($89.90) in the end cos it is cheaper than osim ($128) selling in Homefix. Also hyflux filters out microns whereas instapure does not.


Nice. Hyflux is one of the highest performing ones if you don't mind white plastic. Filters not expensive too at $46.90 every 3-4 months replacement, extend to 6 months if you will. Instapure would be $39 non-chrome and $42 chromed.

No worries, bacteria are pretty big. Even a Cleansui filter with max pore size of 0.1 microns (the pore size ranges from 0.01 - 0.1 microns) can filter bacteria, as listed in its marketing writeup. Instapure does not specify pore size, but it does specify that it removes 99.99% bacteria. Hyflux markets it stuff to remove 99.9999% though with its 0.015 micron spec. Laughing All will filter out lots of stuff, which would never be in our PUB water anyway. Just that we are not sure what kind of stuff are being currently/temporarily introduced by our internal network system after the PUB mains pipe comes into P@D tanks, but i am sure all these UF filters would be able to handle. (if 500% kiasu - just boil after filter, which I don't think is necessary)

Anyway we can consume bacteria/viruses without worries, just not too much before we get sick. Laughing

What I googled :
Bacteria range in size from 0.2-2 microns in width or diameter, and up to 1-10 microns in length for the nonspherical species.

----------------------------------------
All cartridges have a finite lifespan of 3-6 months, even though the volume limit is not reached. Bacteria can grow in there.

13.How often do I need to change the filter cartridge?
The filter cartridge on optimal performance has a capacity span of 1000 litres, which depending on level of usage, should last between 3 to 6 months.

14.My family will be traveling for 1 week, do I need to take any precautions?
When not using the Gurgle F38 for a period of more than 3 days, it is recommended that you remove the filter cartridge, keep it wrapped in a zip-lock bag in the refrigerator to prevent bacteria reproduction which is more susceptible in hot and humid countries.

On storing used/wet cartridges, it is recommended that such cartridges be stored no longer than 14 days.

Do not place the wet cartridge in the freezer or at very cold temperatures like zero degrees celsius. Reason is if ice is formed, it could damage the fine membranes within, or the cartridge could crack due to the extreme temperatures.

----------------------------------------

I have 5 filters in total with my instapure, which lasts 1 year 3 months or so. If the situation does not improve after a year then I guess I would get the Hyflux F38 or even the better ones from Hyflux with even better filtration. (Reverse Osmosis)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2100 wrote:
fran0610 wrote:
Hi.. i got the hyflux one ($89.90) in the end cos it is cheaper than osim ($128) selling in Homefix. Also hyflux filters out microns whereas instapure does not.


Nice. Hyflux is one of the highest performing ones if you don't mind white plastic. Filters not expensive too at $46.90 every 3-4 months replacement, extend to 6 months if you will. Instapure would be $39 non-chrome and $42 chromed.

No worries, bacteria are pretty big. Even a Cleansui filter with max pore size of 0.1 microns (the pore size ranges from 0.01 - 0.1 microns) can filter bacteria, as listed in its marketing writeup. Instapure does not specify pore size, but it does specify that it removes 99.99% bacteria. Hyflux markets it stuff to remove 99.9999% though with its 0.015 micron spec. Laughing All will filter out lots of stuff, which would never be in our PUB water anyway. Just that we are not sure what kind of stuff are being currently/temporarily introduced by our internal network system after the PUB mains pipe comes into P@D tanks, but i am sure all these UF filters would be able to handle. (if 500% kiasu - just boil after filter, which I don't think is necessary)

Anyway we can consume bacteria/viruses without worries, just not too much before we get sick. Laughing

What I googled :
Bacteria range in size from 0.2-2 microns in width or diameter, and up to 1-10 microns in length for the nonspherical species.

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All cartridges have a finite lifespan of 3-6 months, even though the volume limit is not reached. Bacteria can grow in there.

13.How often do I need to change the filter cartridge?
The filter cartridge on optimal performance has a capacity span of 1000 litres, which depending on level of usage, should last between 3 to 6 months.

14.My family will be traveling for 1 week, do I need to take any precautions?
When not using the Gurgle F38 for a period of more than 3 days, it is recommended that you remove the filter cartridge, keep it wrapped in a zip-lock bag in the refrigerator to prevent bacteria reproduction which is more susceptible in hot and humid countries.

On storing used/wet cartridges, it is recommended that such cartridges be stored no longer than 14 days.

Do not place the wet cartridge in the freezer or at very cold temperatures like zero degrees celsius. Reason is if ice is formed, it could damage the fine membranes within, or the cartridge could crack due to the extreme temperatures.

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I have 5 filters in total with my instapure, which lasts 1 year 3 months or so. If the situation does not improve after a year then I guess I would get the Hyflux F38 or even the better ones from Hyflux with even better filtration. (Reverse Osmosis)


I have not move in yet as my wife will be doing her confiment @ her parents place 1st. Hope by then the situation will subside.

Filters are not actually necessary, however based on the current situation.. the need is present.

Just my 2 cents worth, usually consumers are looking more than just filtration, do take a look around rather than just deciding on just filters...

My personal system by Kemp trading www.kemptrading.com is currently hijacked by my in-laws when we had our 1st child... Will be using them again when the time comes.
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